Curse

lewis91 · Jul 17, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I agree with this:

Quote:

To be honest, at this point in GW1's life it doesn't matter.

This:

Quote:

Yet it all boils down to me not caring about anyone else having more money than I do.

And finally this:

Quote:

I could truthfully care less about the price of things I just play the game and enjoy it! need it be title hunting or if I am in the mood for PvP... Just enjoy the game.

Jessyi · Jul 17, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Wait, what gave you the impression that it would never be removed or altered? Did ArenaNet state this somewhere? Or, like any other feature of the game is it possible that it might be changed or removed at some point, and indeed very likely be altered if ArenaNet sees it as a problem or somehow unbalancing the game? This game does change, in fairly minor ways, on a fairly regular basis... attribute refund points anyone? What made you think the XTH was somehow exempt from this?

I shouldn't have used the phrasing "under the impression that". I should have said something like "on the faith that". I took a gamble. Just the same, my point remains valid (a point which has nothing to do with my personal well being): before introducing a system which encourages the spending of real money on accounts, you'd better be damn sure that you know what you're doing, because if you don't (as in this case) you will either encourage people to buy accounts that you'll render worthless later, or else you will be supporting an unpopular system. If that's what you end up creating, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO AFTERWARD, somebody's going to be pissed off at you at the end of the day.

I don't think XTH is exempt from change, but considering that all the facts have been "in" for a long time, I'm not sure a fix is forthcoming. On the other hand, they have a long history of cluing into the obvious twelve months later, so I could be wrong! My accounts have already paid for themselves, so I couldn't bitch too loudly if they did, which for the XTH detractors is probably the best argument you could give to get off the XTH system. Suppose that ANet announces that the XTH will be shut down in 6 months, stopping people from buying new accounts, and allowing existing account holders to get the value out of those accounts (and merely cutting off the truly "free" money after the accounts have been paid for). Just a thought, and this is coming from a guy with a gajillion accounts. If my suggestion happens, I'll post a youtube of me eating a hat.

Nerel · Jul 17, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

They said per week Nerel.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/rmt/rmt-en.php

oh, sorry, too busy doing too many things at once... 5000 per month I could actually believe... but I still think it's just a feel good bit of hype based on a limited set of data from a very specific time frame that just happened to look good enough to post "See, we care".

I'm sure the points being made are still understandable to most.

Nerel · Jul 17, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

snip.

I don't think XTH is exempt from change, but considering that all the facts have been "in" for a long time, I'm not sure a fix is forthcoming. On the other hand, they have a long history of cluing into the obvious twelve months later, so I could be wrong! My accounts have already paid for themselves, so I couldn't bitch too loudly if they did, which for the XTH detractors is probably the best argument you could give to get off the XTH system. Suppose that ANet announces that the XTH will be shut down in 6 months, stopping people from buying new accounts, and allowing existing account holders to get the value out of those accounts (and merely cutting off the truly "free" money after the accounts have been paid for). Just a thought, and this is coming from a guy with a gajillion accounts. If my suggestion happens, I'll post a youtube of me eating a hat.

I'm not sure a 'fix' is coming either, and indeed I find it most probable that it won't be neutered. And yeah, you're right about Anet busting out and and fixing things... a year after everyone else noticed a problem, it happens

Oh, I don't think you'll be eating any hats over this...

Perhaps Anet will shift to nontradable keys, people with multiple accounts will still get 'some' value from the XTH, in the form of Zaishen drops, it doesn't completely remove the RMT aspect of it, but it does cripple it significantly while still allowing the multi account holders some perks.

For the record, I have four accounts, and I want the XTH fixed (not fixed as in returned, fixed as in take away the free money aspect of it).

It doesn't matter that I'm in a position to make more money every month than an estimated 70-80% of the GW population, solely by utilizing the XTH. I still think it is contrary to the spirit of the game, the ideals that sold this game to many...

I would like it fixed, not going to cry if it isn't fixed, obviously... but I think it's an area that ArenaNet should have given more thought to when they were first implementing it. Fair and balanced is how the game should be... not advantages to those with more money, not rewarding time over skill in general... fair and balanced.

pumpkin pie · Jul 17, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

This separation of wealth

^^that is what is wrong with OP's whole argument.

The wealth here is created by the player who bought the account and activating them, since they created that wealth by opening new account, it is rightfully theirs. You cannot assume that there's a pool of wealth waiting there, so that it can be equally divided.

Its like complaining about people who play 20 hours a day while another only play 6 hours and that everyone should stop playing at 6 hours so that the wealth distribution may be "equal"

Does not happen like that. stop complaining.

Tips:
Be happy with what you have and stop looking at what others have.

Note:
One cannot do zMission or zBounty or Traveller's if the account isn't being played before!

Mireles · Jul 17, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Pumpkin Pie

i never said wealth distribution should be equal, i simply stated that players should not have this much of a economic edge over other players simply from buying accounts. The poll statistic results were to show how big of a edge these players have over single account users.

HawkofStorms · Jul 17, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

So if this sample (poll) is representative of the entire guild war population.

And that right there is your biggest problem. Guru is not representative of the entire population. The percentage of people owning only 1 account is likely MUCH higher.

AtomicMew · Jul 17, 2009, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I think it would be hypocritical of ANet to discontinue XTH knowing that so many people have bought new accounts, due to the fact that ANet did advertise such a service on their web site.

The game integrity that you "dream" in your head is definitely not the picture of integrity I have of the current game ever since Factions campaign. Think about people getting 100K+ectos for Kunnavang mini pets if they pay more money for Collector's Edition. Think about those people who got more birthday mini pets because they bought more character slots. Think about Nick's gifts that limits it to 5/account/week which are still tradable for gold, etc. etc.

I think you sorely misunderstood GW, and its designs and directions.

Daesu, you are absolutely right. GW is NOT some "dream" utopia.

However, that doesnt change the fact that
1)A.net is hypocritical, Gold selling, when they ban gold selling.
2)A.net WANTS you to think they are different than the thousands of other WoW clones.

Inde · Jul 17, 2009, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And that right there is your biggest problem. Guru is not representative of the entire population. The percentage of people owning only 1 account is likely MUCH higher.

Yes, this was stated on page 2 of the thread.

Jinkies · Jul 17, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

My issue with XTH doesn't have anything to do with how "rich" people become from owning multiple accounts, but more how it affects the overall gameplay of GW.

When Z title was new Z Key prices ranged between 5.5-6k each. Ectos were a steady 4.9k and platinum was a commodety. With abuse of the XTH Z Keys dropped to as low as 3k, essentially screwing over everyone who invested in their Z Title prior to the influx of Z Keys. That more than the measly 100k per account people recieve was the problem.

The rich people of GW as everyone knows, are the Ebayers and Powertraders. People who buy accounts for Z Keys over buying gold online (both of which I disproove of) are simply dumb. Solid powertrading can bring an easy 80-140e an hour depending on your skill level and luck, making these people far richer than people who use multiple accounts for XTH will ever be.

It would be too late now to make Z Keys account based only; it would put an unfair advantage to the currently disadvantaged - those who bought high Z ranks when Z Keys were higher priced. People with low ranks would find it difficult to achieve high ranks without competing heavily in PvP. Anet needs to make a compromise inbetween, Perhaps reducing the amount of keys awarded for predictions. Part of the reason Z Keys are so low is just that there is the mentality that all the keys recieved are free. People will sell their keys cheap because, "hey its all good I got them for free." If people got fewer it would still be worth it to do predictions, all free money. But the value of them would steadily rise and perhaps the enconomy might get a little better as people would be smarter with their keys, or even use them.

I don't care a ton personally I make so much more off of P Trading than people who utilize XTH as their sole source of income will ever make. I just feel jipped I wasted over 8000 Z Keys worth at 5.5k each for my silly Z Title

I'm glad I focus on minipets now and stay far away from that cursed chest!!

EDIT: though this doesn't apply to everyone, not all buy multiple accounts for the sole purpose of abusing the XTH. I myself have over 20 accounts I use for storing all my junk (Oh it builds up over the years...) In addition, I use 3 of my accounts quite heavily in PvE and PvP... The poll put up doesn't reflect the amount of accounts people use for XTH, but just the amount of accounts people have... Call me crazy but I only predict on 4 of my 21accounts... 3 for myself and 1 for my sis.

zwei2stein · Jul 17, 2009, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

When Z title was new Z Key prices ranged between 5.5-6k each. Ectos were a steady 4.9k and platinum was a commodety. With abuse of the XTH Z Keys dropped to as low as 3k, essentially screwing over everyone who invested in their Z Title prior to the influx of Z Keys. That more than the measly 100k per account people recieve was the problem.

/fail at uderstanding MMOs.

Early adopters ALWAYS get shafted in the long run. Accomplishments in MMOs always devaluate fast. There is nothing that can hold value unless it is discontinued.

Really, what would you expect, to save money when something is hot and new? Anyone who bought that title early on must have known that they would save millions by waiting a while. That 3k per key extra was your price for getting title ASAP.

Jinkies · Jul 17, 2009, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

/fail at uderstanding MMOs.

Early adopters ALWAYS get shafted in the long run. Accomplishments in MMOs always devaluate fast. There is nothing that can hold value unless it is discontinued.

Really, what would you expect, to save money when something is hot and new? Anyone who bought that title early on must have known that they would save millions by waiting a while. That 3k per key extra was your price for getting title ASAP.

/fail at understanding the economy of GW. If that was true prices of things such as the Asian Miniatures (Panda, Island Guardian, Vizu etc.) and prices of things such as r8 Weapons would lose value over time. And well... we all know that paying 160e for your first panda then selling it for 22,000e later is nice profit

. Neither are discontinued in fact I have an email link from Regina saying there might even be plans to introduce more contests with "In game rewards" - AKA most likely minis. Sure I admit Z title could only drop in the long run but it's dropped far faster then it would have normally and your idea of how MMO's work is completly off. Most accomplishments have actually risen.. Champ points can nolonger be farmed w/o recieving a banhammer.. the keg farming was nerfed so it actually takes a few days to get Leg Survivor if you want to get into small things....

Z Keys are part of the economy and are no different, there is no denying that XTH has had a profound affect on the title that would have otherwise been actually quite prestigious to have at high ranks.

upier · Jul 17, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinkies

When Z title was new Z Key prices ranged between 5.5-6k each. Ectos were a steady 4.9k and platinum was a commodety. With abuse of the XTH Z Keys dropped to as low as 3k, essentially screwing over everyone who invested in their Z Title prior to the influx of Z Keys. That more than the measly 100k per account people recieve was the problem.

Z-Keys do not have a set price nor is there a limited quantity of them in the game.
It was OBVIOUS that their price would fall.
Now, one could argue that buying keys back then was silly - but you do have to remember that you had those title ranks sooner than the people that are buying keys now. You paid to be the first.
I guess what you are really pissed about now is that no-one cares about you being first.

And this one was just lovely:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

If you don't like farming, trading, or earning titles. Why are you playing this game?

There are some people that say this is positive because it makes things cheaper for newer players. Yes it does make it easier to accomplish thing set in quantity by the game, but when it comes to trade you need more z-keys, gold, or ecto simply because it is worth less due to the inflation caused by XTH. Just like other real world trading was making gold less valuable to players in the first year of the game.

I approve your idea that MASSIVE farming, which you support, has NO influence whatsoever on the prices. It's the XTH, with it's few keys PER MONTH that is raising the prices.

Eversince the XTH stopped working - I stopped caring about PvP.
But you know what, I can play PvE as the sole player in my map.
I'd love to see how that works out for the PvP guys.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 17, 2009, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I think it would be hypocritical of ANet to discontinue XTH knowing that so many people have bought new accounts, due to the fact that ANet did advertise such a service on their web site.

Well Anet didn't tell people to go out and buy multiple accounts to exploit a flawed system now did they?

Technically in one sense it is cheating, technically in another it is real money trading.

I'd find it quite amusing if Anet did change it.

pumpkin pie · Jul 17, 2009, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

Pumpkin Pie

i never said wealth distribution should be equal, i simply stated that players should not have this much of a economic edge over other players simply from buying accounts. The poll statistic results were to show how big of a edge these players have over single account users.

What edge?

I don't have anything left in my account after I was hacked, and I am still able to play normally and quite well and having lots of fun while there are a lot of GW billionaire running around in the game.

Fay Vert · Jul 17, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

I agree that wealth in the game at this point simply doesn't matter. What really matters is that people aare free to play how they want and have fun how they want rather than have options narrowed and play styles dictated.

Remove the frigging stupid loot nerf, which killed the game far more than anything else. Either that or Kill XTH and SF to be consistant.

Tullzinski · Jul 17, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

i never said wealth distribution should be equal, i simply stated that players should not have this much of a economic edge over other players simply from buying accounts. The poll statistic results were to show how big of a edge these players have over single account users.

Economic Edge???? What is that? Is there whole portion of the game I have missed? Does this Economic Edge allow the top rated people/guilds in PVP to spank everyone else? Does this economic edge allow ppl to breeze FOW/DOA/End Game Bosses faster and easier than everyone else? Does this Economic Edge help ppl with Hard Mode? Wait I got it Economic Edge allows ppl to dominate everyone in the snowball tourney this weekend right? No? Rollerbeetle Racing maybe? No....Hmmm trying to find out what portion of the actual game this Economic Edge is allowing everyone to dominate in Guild Wars. How about in Pre??? No.

WAIT I GOT!!!!!!

E-PEEN TOURNEY!!! Damn that is it I quit! Everyone with multiple accts is winning the I have more crap than you tourney, the I have the coolest armor tourney, the I have 10000000 ectos tourney, the I have the best weapons tourney, the I have the best minis tourney, etc....

Mireles quit being worried about what everyone else has or doesn't have and play the game. Having 1 or 100 accounts does not affect YOUR actual gameplay in any way. Keep out of everyones fun. When we need someone to head the MMO multiple account police, we will give you a call.

AngelWJedi · Jul 17, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

i'm not as smart as a lot of people are on guru *looks at inde* but i think they should bring xth back. just because you hate it and dont want it back doesnt mean everyone else does. i play the game normal and with events and other such things i stayed at a steady 300k. i only use the zkeys to help with my one ziashen title. and yes i know i can play pvp to get zkeys. but not every one is good at pvp. *looks shocked* and i only have one account!

so leave xth alone if you dont like it and let the rest of us enjoy it..when it comes back.

Inde · Jul 17, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I haven't really given my opinion on XTH and whether it should come back or stay away. People play the game for their own reasons and they are many. Who am I to define what is fun for someone else?

Targren · Jul 17, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

People play the game for their own reasons and they are many. Who am I to define what is fun for someone else?

Wait a minute... How can you run a fansite and not get it? The whole POINT of fora like these is to rant and flame that the game should be played YOUR way and anyone who thinks otherwise is a big poopyhead!

Get with the program, man!